Challenges & Opportunities for Youth Ministry with Rev. Mark Kiessling

Today on the show we're joined by the Reverend Mark Kiessling to talk about the challenges and opportunities facing youth ministry. In a nutshell, it boils down to relationships. Reverend Mark Kiessling is the Director of Youth Ministry for the Lutheran Church — Missouri Synod. 

Transcript

Elizabeth Pittman (11s):
Today on the show we're joined by the Rev. Mark Kiessling to talk about the challenges and opportunities facing youth ministry. Today, in a nutshell, it boils down to relationships. Rev. Mark Kiessling is the director of the office of youth ministry for the Lutheran church, Missouri Synod.

Elizabeth Pittman (44s):
Welcome Mark, glad that you could be with us today.

Mark Kiessling (47s):
Thanks, Elizabeth. Great to be here with you and to be able to talk about everything going on in this unusual time, but yet how the Gospel continues to be shared. And people continue to look at Jesus in these difficult times.

Elizabeth Pittman (59s):
I do think we're going to look back one day and we're going to see the fruit of the seeds that are being sewn with the Gospel. Becuase it's amazing when you see the creativity that's happening in every aspect of ministry.

Mark Kiessling (1m 12s):
Absolutely. I think we saw that a lot. We love to hear the stories of young people raising the level of leadership we'll send. They're like, Hey, you're in our world. We're used to this technology thing. This is how we communicate. And so to see, so many of them being asked to get servants online or whatever it was to up the game, maybe in social media. And so a lot of ways for them to use their gifts and to be able to help the church as they shared the gospel and build community too, amongst members and amongst people too. So it was really neat to see.

Elizabeth Pittman (1m 42s):
It's amazing. I mean, it's our young people are so creative and so they're passionate about everything that they do. And they, you know, I think we're seeing what this younger generation, they really do feel deeply and they want to be involved and they want to help with everything that they're doing. I had the opportunity to talk with a number of people who are involved in youth ministry in different capacities. And I mentioned that I'm going to be talking to you. And I said, what would you want to hear him talk about? And across the board, it all boil down to a couple of things.

Elizabeth Pittman (2m 15s):
One, how do we build community and strengthen our relationships with our youth and to the greater church, not just among the youth, we don't want to keep him isolated. And then how do we raise up volunteers and leaders who are willing to come alongside our youth? And those are important. I think those are key topics when youth ministry is quote unquote normal. And I think there's a whole new layer of those, how we work through those topics.

Elizabeth Pittman (2m 46s):
Now in 2020, I'm gonna just let you launch from there and we'll, we'll just, we'll go.

Mark Kiessling (2m 54s):
Yeah, absolutely. And you know, certainly, there's no silver bullet for those things, but great challenges. And also I think opportunities. And I think that's where I feel a lot of angst coming from maybe youth workers right now. I don't think anyone really anticipated, we'd be here, you know, six months out and still dealing with these things. And so, you know, I think there were some phases of energy we got through Holy week together as a church, it felt like we got through the rest of the school year. We kind of took a break in summer. And like now it's time, it's confirmation time.

Mark Kiessling (3m 25s):
It's got Christian education time. It's all these things where it's like, man, what's that next step? And you got tired parents, you got young people trying to figure out school and maybe a different phase. So there's just a lot going on right now. And certainly the church can be that place to walk alongside young people, along families and show grace and empathy right now and doing that and building those relationships and keeping those relationships. So I think, I think both for building that community, I love, I mean, you kind of touched on it. I think we have a lot of congregations who are really taking some time to look at the beauty of intergenerational ministry and not, this is not a time to let's isolate young people.

Mark Kiessling (4m 0s):
This is a time for us to rally around them and support them and what a joy it is to be able to do that too. I think as adults and as parents and to watch them, like you say, use their gifts and be able to help them flourish at this time and be empathetic to what's going on with all the transitions and changes and uncertainty right now for our high school students and junior high students and college students too, and walking alongside them. So I think that's a great place to start is to be thinking about a time to rally and rather than maybe think about youth ministry being so isolated, but yet, how is it, how is relationships being built with parents and with other adults and inviting both sides of the young people and the adults into that conversation and those times together time and God's word time and enjoyment and fellowship as well.

Mark Kiessling (4m 43s):
And, and right now a lot of that's probably gonna be online trying to figure that out, maybe finals conduction times when there's probably some fatigue of that. So I appreciate two congregations that are getting creative, creative, finding ways to social distance, and get together. All of a sudden boy that parking lot becomes an extension of the church. A lot of ways. Yeah, I live next. I live close to our church. I'm amazed when I go out running out or just walking around, it seems like it's being used a lot, which is awesome by different groups. So utilizing that to be able to see just people, man, I can't believe the joy of seeing people face to face. 

Mark Kiessling (5m 14s):
I haven't seen in a long time and just being able to share those signs get caught up and be able to be in relationship with them. And so I think that's a beautiful thing that churches can capitalize on and now maybe have to go into a new phase of being creative that way. Cause it's been a long time since you've been able to do that. And I think there's more pride flexibility, a lot of parts of the country to be able to do that. So, and I think, you know, on that too, then, you know, that intentionality, I think congregations need to try and go right now of current young people who are going through some tough transitions, sometimes have uncertainty notes, texts checking in with them.

Mark Kiessling (5m 49s):
And I'm, I'm trying to hold myself accountable on that and getting a list of young people to write out to in our church that I maybe don't even know that well. And just to know, I've been certainly been praying for him through all of this and so that they, they know that personally, that that's happening in their church and that, you know, hopefully, we can be there again to support them in many various ways as they walk through these times of both joy, but also struggle to. So I think that that takes that time. I think for congregations really, to invest in and get maybe some champions who are those who have the time and desire to really consistently do that. But then for all the people of God to have opportunities, to reach out to young people and to, and to share grace with them, I'm going to be able to know that they have a church that cares for them.

Elizabeth Pittman (6m 26s):
I love that you're intentionally reaching out to the kids in your congregation and I hope all of our congregations are doing that. And I know there's always a concern about time and staff, but at this stage I think that having those intentional touches are so important and it's, and not just for you it's frankly for everybody. And I think it's worth the time for our church workers to say, we're gonna dedicate, you know, an hour each day to just connecting with people as opposed to, you know, it used to be, you could go and see everybody on Sunday mornings and you could give hugs and you could check how's it all going.

Elizabeth Pittman (7m 4s):
And we don't have those opportunities now. And we really do need to, you know, and I'm just thinking in terms of our church staff, yes. Preparing for what worship looks like and what Bible study looks like is different now. And that's taking energy that it may not have taken before, but we can't drop the ball and having one on one connections with our kids and with our young adults.

Mark Kiessling (7m 28s):
Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I bet my wife and I have talked about that a lot in terms of like, just like, man, we'd realize how long it's been since we've seen somebody and man with joints can be when we get to again, but at same time we get nervous too. Like, you know what we think of so many congregations that maybe those relationship ties would be broken? What if they, what if they're not, they're like we kind of make the one to make those lists of those people. We want to be checking in on just to make sure everything's going okay. Cause we didn't have that regular, weekly checkin at church or at a Christian education that week piece, whatever it may have been and just to know how they're doing. And so for congregations, you know, like I said to be intentional about that, I think there's, you know, I'm sure probably anecdotally you could back this up, but I feel like from some churches who maybe had really those strong relational connections before going into something like a pandemic, whether it was maybe it was a smaller church or maybe it was a church that just where the church has made me more of a central part of the life of a congregation because of the location or whatever it may have been is that they may be more naturally kept those connections as they went in.

Mark Kiessling (8m 26s):
So you have some churches who maybe say we got to bear down into this and, and see where there are some gaps in those relational ministries we had before. And let's use this as an opportunity to not say, well, that's just the way it is. But to say like, no, we're going to invest into that time now and build those relationships. Cause this is when we need them. And then also to have those times, like you said, when we start coming back more in, as let's capitalize on this time of getting back together, let's make sure we check in with one another. Let's make sure, I mean, I think mental health and other things are going to be big questions going ahead for churches and how you can support one another with unemployment, with other challenges that are coming with our young people as they go through these transitions.

Mark Kiessling (9m 1s):
So what are those ways we can continue to engage in that conversation with our members and care for them spiritually.

Elizabeth Pittman (9m 7s):
I suspect that there are a lot of congregations, whether they realize it or not are experiencing those gaps and where they may have thought something was healthy, maybe finding, or I hope they're finding that, Oh, you know what? Just because we had this robust seemingly robust program, you know, everything has kind of collapsed now that we that's been stripped away. And it really does go to show that it's the relationship, the programs need to serve the relationships.

Elizabeth Pittman (9m 38s):
And we need to start with those relationship first and you can throw a pro I think you'll see this you've, you've probably experienced this. You could throw a program at anything, but if it's not serving the deepening of connections and relationships, it's really not going to have any longterm.

Mark Kiessling (9m 55s):
Right? Yeah. We, we joked, we did a symposium a couple of years ago. We were just releasing the research that we had done. And we were talking about all, we saw how the importance of relationship was so key and keeping young people connected in the church and for their resilient faith. So someone at attendance in a joking way said, okay, but what's the program that develops relationships

Elizabeth Pittman (10m 14s):
One on one conversation.

Mark Kiessling (10m 16s):
Yeah. Yeah, they did it tongue in cheek, but it was so true about like that's what we want to find is what's the program that can make this happen. And that's where, you know, relationships are so beautiful. I mean, that gets us into, you know, the, the struggles and joys of everyday life and be able to walk alongside a young person or anybody through these things. And those take time, those that takes investment, but man, is it so worth it and, and such a blessing to be able to do that. So I think he's right, exactly. To your point is that when we, I think it's been, we were doing this very early on in the pandemic with churches.

Mark Kiessling (10m 48s):
There was a lot of evaluation going on, for sure. In terms of people were saying, wow, people did not miss this program that we were doing. And yet all of a sudden this other program is showing its fruit because the relationship relational ties are so tight amongst the people who are doing it. So they're, they're the ones like we got to figure out zoom, we got to figure this out because we, we miss each other. We're doing a text group now that we never would have done before because they just missed and loved their fellow brother or sister in Christ. And they figured it out. And so there was a lot of evaluation I think, going on in congregations, you know, people find it out the ports, we got it.

Mark Kiessling (11m 20s):
We got to bring the people together and worship whether it was online, whether it was finding out how you can creatively do it with social distancing and the parts of the country that could still do it because they know the importance of being coming together around Christ's gifts. And to be able to be in a community was so important during a time like that. So I think again, you saw with those relational connections were so important in that ministry, right?

Elizabeth Pittman (11m 39s):
Well, what's great is that you don't need a lot of resources. You don't need, you don't need a lot of money, monetary resources or space resources. It really does boil down to, you know, human beings being human beings. And we need to care for our neighbor. And we can, you can go grab a lawn chair and sit in your friend's lawn and have that connection. And you don't need you, you've got the church parking lot. You've got these places where you can come together. How can we get away from thinking in terms of programs and encourage the nurturing of relationships?

Mark Kiessling (12m 19s):
Yeah. I th I think, you know, there's a couple of things that I would probably lift up is, is to be thinking about one of those places in spaces, where in your congregation, in your situation that you can kind of just open that up to maybe some open talking dialogue, maybe just have some discussion questions, you know, maybe, you know, whether there is a pastor, a church worker who's able to do this or be available, or to find a lay person who's comfortable with this. You might have a small word of certainly scripture and of reassurance in it.

Mark Kiessling (12m 51s):
But I think probably there's some people that just kind of want to talk through what's happened to process a little bit, especially again, if that's a context where you haven't, they will have that happen a lot. And so just find those spaces where you can creatively do that and be open to that and be responsible in it. But then also to, I mean, I think a lot of spaces that can, can still be done virtually, and if people aren't completely exhausted from it, they'll just have a space where people can come together and talk and get to know one another. I, this is really a chance, again, for churches to take advantage of this time. And there might be some types of confess and say, we realize we haven't done this very well in the past, and we need to be doing it and, and take that time to assess that and to come back strong in that way and be okay with that live in the gospel, live in grace, ask for forgiveness from that and, and, and figure that out, moving ahead and really take advantage of this unique time in the life of the, of the world and our congregations to be able to do that.

Mark Kiessling (13m 37s):
So I think to find those spaces, to really invite people into that, I think to your, probably have some real champions that that's, that's their gift. That's how God's created them to be relational, to be, to be outreach, to reach focus, even within the membership of the congregation and to have them spearhead that and to find those places, to make sure you're checking in with your membership, kind of just be able to keep a spreadsheet and Italia and make sure that you've reached out spiritually to care for them and see how they're doing and see how they connect. So to really make that improvement, I'd make that step.

Mark Kiessling (14m 7s):
I, to intentionally do that, whether it's with young people, families, whoever it may be to be able to have that connection. And then I think there's some things too that really we can be doing. It might be old mode operations of there's some good, tried, and true things that we did in ministry that are, I think, are making a comeback, which is great snail mail and things like that. Just to be able to reach out to members and be able to know that they're being cared for. And so, can you help if you've got a young person really likes to serve people is to give them some projects and say, here's five shut-ins that we have in our church. Can you write them a note?

Mark Kiessling (14m 37s):
And then they get to learn new skills. And at the same time, they get to share the gospel and love with a fellow brother and sister in Christ. And so I know that, like you said, it takes time. I mean, it really does. I mean, we know church workers are working a lot right now, but just kinda some other that maybe some laypeople as they've as their schedule shift now a little bit, maybe they got a little bit more time or different time that they can help with. These might be some ideas that they can do to bring young people into that conversation as well as to support them too.

Elizabeth Pittman (15m 2s):
I want to circle back to one thing that you said that I think is important and it's easy to overlook. You mentioned outreach within the congregation. And I think often when congregations are thinking about outreach, they're thinking outside of the existing church membership and that's important, and I'm not, I don't want to downplay that, but I think what we've seen in these last months is that we have opportunity right now within our own congregations to make sure that we are keeping ourselves strong.

Elizabeth Pittman (15m 35s):
And I think, and that it really it's, it's a fine point that if you're not intentionally connecting in between Sunday and Sunday, no matter how that looks with people in your congregation, that's gonna affect your overall health down the road. And I think, I think we're gonna see, you know, on the other side of all of this, that there may be people I've seen studies where people who had been in church regularly haven't even attended an online service or haven't done anything online.

Elizabeth Pittman (16m 6s):
And that should frighten our congregations because what's going to make that person want to come back when they've realized, Oh, maybe I really haven't missed anything.

Mark Kiessling (16m 17s):
Yeah, absolutely. I think that's some of the sides of how long now this is extended into, is that seeing some of those statistics of how many church members haven't engaged. And I think, like you said, there's a real positive thing. Stoops and people have been reached with the gospel in a way that they never have been before, because now it was on their Facebook feed or there's a new way to invite people at the church and to hear the gospel. So there's some exciting things too, but I think that's something like you said, that is one of these pieces where that intentionality and inviting back in and making those connections and the love of Christ for our members to do that.

Mark Kiessling (16m 47s):
I think another thing too, like talking about strengthening ourselves, I mean, we see with the younger generation, this will be, you know, arguably the least church going young generation, you know, for a number of generations now. And so more and more, our Lutheran Christian Young people are with friends whom they love and they care about who are not going to know the church. They're not going to know Jesus. And they are, you know, so many ways missionaries in their context. And so how we can strengthen them probably to reach that generation, it's gonna be less and less inviting them to the church and expecting they're going to show up for something but more.

Mark Kiessling (17m 18s):
It's going to be that individual young person who, through a situation like a pandemic is living in joy, despite the difficulties, and can point to Christ in these times, and to again, speak that there is a God that loves them in the middle of all of this and these transitions, even though it's hard, it's not, it doesn't make it easy, but it's hard, but yet they've got that peace and joy. That's beyond them, outside of them, that Christ can bring. And so I think they become, again, this conduit for a generation to be able to share the gospel with them. And they're going to be new contexts that they're going to be learning now I'm in these next months, but the continue to strengthen them and their work too.

Mark Kiessling (17m 52s):
And so we strengthen the body so that they can outreach to other young people who are going to be recalled through some difficult times. And our,

Elizabeth Pittman (17m 58s):
So we're for our listeners, we're recording this on the morning of September 11th and September 11th shaped an entire generation. I think the same way, just as you described this current generation of young people coming up, this pandemic will definitely shape their lives and we need the church to help strengthen them as much as we can. Right now, your, your office at youth ministry has done a significant amount of important research in terms of youth and millennials and what that looks like for generation Z.

Elizabeth Pittman (18m 32s):
And in addition to relationships, another piece that you found to be significant that also echoes what our youth leaders are asking about is, you know, leadership and volunteers and the importance of those leaders for the lifetime faith and of our, of our kids. So talk to me a little bit about the importance of our, our leaders who work with our kids and why their commitment really matters and how we might be able to, how we need to think about that differently right now, because it was hard to recruit volunteers before now it's wildly different,

Mark Kiessling (19m 10s):
Correct? Yeah. I mean, I think one thing that we certainly definitely saw in our research was I'll, I'll say this two-fold for those, like you said, that might seem like let's, that's pretty daunting as that we saw the beauty of adults who invested in young people who weren't necessarily the ones that were going to go do the lock-in or necessarily go do the week-long servant event. That's just not their thing, but man, when they could get them in touch with them in a time like this and say like, just tell me what's going on with sports with school, like what's happening because, because of love and just to be invited to, this is how they might need a little encouragement.

Mark Kiessling (19m 47s):
This is how you show love for a young person right now is to reach out, just listen to them, be empathetic to them, or to walk alongside them, to, to show your emotion when you are so happy to see them again in worship, I'm going to be able to celebrate that and be able to check in with them. And so then when the Holy Spirit works with those relationships and to be able to show that they're cared for in that way. So I think one time it's just for people to understand, like we saw it in the research that those times of checking in those times of praying, I mean, man, the power of prayer for our young people to be able to show support, to take time after church, just to greet them was huge.

Mark Kiessling (20m 21s):
To know that the church cared for them and that there was a place for them as they transitioned out of high school and to other places, the church was a place they wanted to be. Cause they knew their church is a place of warmth and grace. And so how key that could be. So that's one side I say to all adults is that you play a significant role in the life of young people, staying connected to the church and don't downplay that. And that's everything from the pastor to church workers to laypeople, to family members all along the board. I think the other thing on the intentionality side is that certainly, we understand that from we live in a busy society and at one time I am curious like you've talked about a pandemic to kind of shape a generation.

Mark Kiessling (20m 55s):
I'm curious too, we're, we're trying to watch maybe not so much research in the LCMS, but larger ones who are conducting this as you know, weren't priorities right now. And is there some kind of new awakening to say, okay, maybe the busy-ness piece we did okay. Without having that business. And then we actually enjoyed being together as a family. There might be some, again, recalculation of act going ahead, as we look into, and don't take that for granted that there might be some really good opportunities to ask for people to invest in youth ministry, in ministry, to young people, whether it's from Sunday school programs, to whatever it may be, that this might be a really key time to have that conversation with some people who say like, Oh man, now I see the importance of this and I want to get involved.

Mark Kiessling (21m 35s):
And what we really saw from those adults who invest kind of maybe more intentionally, that way was ways that they one thought about longterm relationships. So it's not just relationship with this young person for four years of high school or six years if you added middle school. But I think social media is a great way for this to happen, but like, how are you already starting to think of that young person? And you're praying for their, for their future marriages and careers and, and as parents or other vocations they're going to be in and how are you starting to talk to them in that way and show them about this is how we continue to live in Christ through these transitions and into these different vocations at times in life phases in life.

Mark Kiessling (22m 12s):
And to keep those connections that, I mean, I love that for that's one thing I'd love to see churches do more is to understand man, when that young person was baptized confirmed, raised in your church, that's that's our home church. That's where that seed was planted. That's where it was watered. That's where it was pruned. Let's keep those relationships and have that pride and desire to connect with the daughters and sons of our congregation in that way. And keep those relationships going.

Elizabeth Pittman (22m 34s):
There might be congregations that do this. I've not seen it in congregations. That I've been a part of. And I it's, it's common to have prayer partners matched up with our confirmation kids. How cool would be if we set those prayer partners at baptism? Oh yeah, absolutely. And maybe more than one, maybe you pick two or three people who, when a new child is baptized, they start right then and there. How powerful could that be?

Mark Kiessling (22m 56s):
It's powerful. And I think, you know, and sometimes it takes that intentionality to build, develop relationships that way. And that's okay. And I think that's a beautiful thing to be thinking about that through all those phases in life, they have it, you know, it's kind of like a second level of godparents, a little bit that's from the church itself that are there to see them every week to know no they're missing may be, and to be able to connect and say, we want it. We want to see you. We desire to see you. We want you to receive Christ's gifts of forgiveness and be in community this way. So I think it's a great way to think about it. Start started early on to build those relationships at a very early age.

Mark Kiessling (23m 27s):
Cause like, we'd see that too with successful youth ministry. So often it's, it's on, it's on the shoulders of successful children, ministry and middle school ministry because those relationships are built. So that transition to high school ministry it's much easier that way. And I think in that too, I mean, one thing we saw was we talked about it before was the beauty of intergenerational connections and that's one way that that can happen. And so young people get to see models at different phases of life, of walking with Jesus and walking into the church. And so that's a beautiful thing. And I, I think the other thing we saw too, our churches that are gonna intentionally we're there to walk with young people through transitions through crisis as, than any like we are not, but then also Joyce to celebrate victories in life and to celebrate transitions that are exciting and life.

Mark Kiessling (24m 9s):
And so the church is there to let them know that they care for them during those times. So, and that's where we saw again, that those that maybe spend a little bit more time investing in are some things, things that Kion are, again, look to those times, you know, those natural times in a young person's life that they're going to go through, keep transition and maybe some crisis I'm trying to figure out, you know, as they, as we look at their identity in Christ, that they're trying to maybe figure that out a little bit, moving ahead, vocationally. But then there's on those unexpected ones too. And we saw beautiful in the research when Christians or the church stepped into those gaps, man, that made a lasting impression on a young person, the Holy Spirit worked through that time to remind them that you are baptized, God is with you.

Mark Kiessling (24m 46s):
He's got you into this situation. And to see people walk with them through that was a beautiful thing.

Elizabeth Pittman (24m 51s):
And I think everything that you've said underscores the importance of not segregating our children and youth ministry off into it's, Oh, they're done in the youth room. That's where there'll be, we'll see them, you know, all of a sudden one day they're adults and they pop up in the middle of everything. What are some ways that we can be intentional about including our youth or young people in the everyday goings on of the church so that they have a chance to grow up?

Mark Kiessling (25m 14s):
Yeah, actually it's a good point. That was actually another key part of our research. And we talk about some of the practices was that churches who engage young people in leadership opportunities and that's, that's everything from, you know, we're, that's a very broad definition. We'll use leadership, but really talking service, you know, in a church. So that's everything from, I love it. Like in our church, we've got young people who start ushering at a young age. And so they're walking alongside other adults learning how to do that. Just building those relationships, you know, Akalaitis serving at church during the worship service is just a great way to get them connected and just for them to be seen.

Mark Kiessling (25m 46s):
I mean, that's what I like, like all of a sudden, I mean, Beth, my wife and I'll have to say a lot of times like, Oh my goodness, they're old enough to act like that's so cool. Like they're growing up so fast. And so like, it's a great check in time to be able to see that and to be able to see them go through phases of life. So just for them to have that opportunity, you know, some might do, you know, if they got lay leaders to be able to read scripture, to be part of that, some that really are, you're starting to see their gifts. And so man, how can they be involved in helping maybe with children's ministry at time, if they're not in an old cost themselves or helping with VBS start tapping them on the shoulder and say, you've got an amazing gift to work with young people.

Mark Kiessling (26m 17s):
Like we want to utilize that, like we want to be to lead and help us do this. I think, I think another thing too, for those that, I mean, depending on the structure of your church and we don't, you don't want it to be a token spot by any means, but when, again, when they've got those leadership abilities, you know, we just went through a call processes, have them in those conversations about this is how the church works. This is how the church functions. And we want the voice of the young people to be heard and whether that's in their own forums or to make sure they're being shown up and the other forums that there'll be able to take, hear this. I think, I think one thing that I've learned about probablyWo like just bringing young people into this group that sometimes we don't do well as the church, we don't explain the why very well sometimes.

Mark Kiessling (26m 54s):
And I think opportunities to do that, help us do that. This is why we do things as either our specific little LCMS church in our structure, or this is how the broad church does things. And to be able to explain the why, because at times probably going to come at some point, you know, people are gonna ask, why do we do this? And the more we can use that language and explain it, I think the better that'll be, the transparency will be there. And the invitation will be there to be a part of those leadership roles. So I would really invite carnations to look through the opportunities they have to serve and say, how are we either opening that up to young people or to go to maybe some of the older adults or adults we're doing it to say, Hey, here's a challenge to you.

Mark Kiessling (27m 31s):
We want you to find one young person to mentor in that role you have, cause you're not gonna be able to do it forever. And really your role now is to mentor someone else into that leadership role. And so how can you make that intergenerational relationship happen? But then also you're bringing up new leadership and help young people understand it may not be at this church, but when you're an adult, you're gonna be able to serve now in this way because you understand how it works and you can take that experience into another congregation and the church be blessed by that.

Elizabeth Pittman (27m 56s):
It's so fun to see young people helping. My son has been on the rotation for reading scripture now for probably three he's 14, probably for three years now. And well, he's a teenager now. So he gets grumpy about feeling pulled to do something every single time without fail. After he has read the scripture one to two or three people always stop me afterwards and mention how nice it is to see a young person doing something like that to be involved. And so it's, it's, you know, church staff might think it's a small thing, but it is really, really significant to keep our youth involved and invested in their country.

Mark Kiessling (28m 36s):
Yeah, well, and I think it speaks volumes and you know, those different places that say there's a place for you now you're a part of the church now, and there's a place for you in the future too. And I think they'd be able to see that and say like, I, when I'm an adult, I get to be that mentor to either maybe my own child or to another child in the congregation. And that's just something that happens. And I think, I think that used to be built into churches, you know, before we were a mobile society that was just naturally built into our congregations. You had generational families and stuff that was, just would do that. There was, there was I think that order in which that happened and we're just not in that society anymore.

Mark Kiessling (29m 7s):
And so now churches need to intentionally look at how that happens in the, see themselves as the family of the OD and how do we raise people up that way. And so I think that could be a significant step

Elizabeth Pittman (29m 17s):
For our youth. It's, it's become cliche, but there's so many people and families that, Oh, confirmation comes, we're done. How can we help our families? And our young people understand that it's not, you know, our faith and being a part of our community is not something that, you know, we graduate from, but it's a lifelong journey that we're constantly being built up into. Yeah. I'd say

Mark Kiessling (29m 42s):
Two things about that is one. I was just going to say, what you just said is that to start that foundation from the get go that EV our whole life is a journey with Christ. And so we never outgrow the faith. We never, we, we always want to paint that vision and that, that plan, if you will, for families that, you know, this is how one lives in the church and lives in lives with Christ for in lifetime and enjoy eternity. And so one that we use that language a lot in our teaching. We point to that and really have those times where we, they probably have some really honest conversations about it too, about this.

Mark Kiessling (30m 15s):
Let's be honest. These are times where we see young people walking away from the church after confirmation, what are we going to do about it instead of just wringing our hands and walk away after high school, another time too, what are we doing intentionally to make sure we are loving on those young people as they make that transition to keeping them connected out to their home church, but then also to their future church. So it's really, I think some intentional action in those areas to do that. I think, I think planning, I mean, that's one thing that we're trying to help churches a little bit to think through your Christian education plan. Do that spiritual formation plan is so that, again, it doesn't look like it's this hard stop at confirmation.

Mark Kiessling (30m 47s):
And then like, we don't know what we do. And one of it is to say, I think churches are doing a great job of this, but it's not that as though you get through confirmation and then like the learning stops, but you have been, how are we continuing Christian education and the learning into high school years when they're there asking tough questions and how is the church to be the place to honestly fill it? Every adult, every parent has to have every answer, but at least to be a place where they can come and bring their questions and their they're received with empathy and with understanding, and then to be in the word together, talk about history, talk about these things, to be able to look deeply into these tough issues that man, I mean, young people are seeing it in our society and they're complicated and they're tough and they want to talk about it.

Mark Kiessling (31m 28s):
And when the church doesn't want to talk about it, they're like, well, why how's faith relevant? Then in this one, these are big problems that I care a lot about.

Elizabeth Pittman (31m 35s):
They're big problems, but we're also seeing our youth who are watching all of this and they're recognized who do we trust? We don't try to put what we're seeing on the news. We don't trust, you know what I'm reading, where do, where do I find an adult or somebody else that I can trust who will talk with me, who will be empathetic and understand what I'm experiencing.

Mark Kiessling (31m 56s):
Absolutely. And to be able to sit in that kind of ambiguity sometimes, and be able to say it's complicated, even, you know, I'm sure we saw this in the pandemic, even as the body of Christ, we have disagreements about this right now is this small little church, maybe local church. We have disagreements about how to handle this, and yet we're still together. And that's how we keep our unity. And this is how we come and have these tough conversations and to, and I think our young generation already needs to see that more than maybe previous generations, because it is so much now more in their face with media and social media and everything else. And now, you know, a pandemic is obviously affecting their life very much.

Mark Kiessling (32m 27s):
This is not an adult issue. Our young people are dealing with it on a tremendous level right now. And so how do we be a place of empathy and conversation for that to happen? And so I think that's a key part too, is as they're coming out of time, it's like we want the church to continue to be this place where we're going to talk about tough issues, not going to ignore them. And we're going to do that in the love of Christ and in the truth of God's word. And that, that can certainly take some work to do that. But yet I think some really great fruit can come out of that. And then I would just say the other thing about that, just if, just to take one angle of your question, we, we didn't see this in our research, but we've seen it in other research is that, you know, certainly confirmation is not a silver bullet to get young people back in the church, but if, if they can't, if they come in for confirmation and they weren't very active before confirmation there, statistically, couldn't probably be pretty inactive afterwards.

Mark Kiessling (33m 15s):
Unless again, you, you really do a lot of work to make the confirmation program being one where the family gets involved and the young person sees this as a blessing, not as necessarily like I'm just dropping my kid off to get confirmed. So the other thing we would say too, is that again, I said this before, is that boy, we want those families to be involved before confirmation gets there. So how are we pouring into our children's ministry? How are we inviting them in getting them connected that way? So that confirmation isn't the first time that all of a sudden the junior hires in church, but yet there's been that lifetime of checkin points of connection with the congregation.

Elizabeth Pittman (33m 47s):
Like how can we, and he touched us on a very important here. Our kids need to see their parents and other adults actively nurturing their faith and participating in the church community. And if you have, you know, a family shows up for church, they don't stay for Sunday school or Bible class. They drop their kid off for Sunday school and they disappear for coffee or like dropping them off for confirmation and go kill time. That definitely sets the message that this is a kid thing and it's not for everyone.

Elizabeth Pittman (34m 19s):
So how can we help? And then we need to keep our kids connected. I think if I remember from your research retention was strong strongest. If the child was connected and active all the way through high school graduation, where that's, where it's, that continues, you can't have confirmation. And all of a sudden the family, they might show up for church, but Bible study and time in the Word is not as active. How can we keep our families to where we have this thriving, active faith community happening all the time.

Mark Kiessling (34m 53s):
Right, right. Yeah, we did see, so we saw teas within Christian families when young people had parents who were actively involved in worship. And we, we did active kind of from a statistical standpoint, we called active worshipers once a month, at least once a month. So some people that doesn't sound like a really high bar, but yet nonetheless, we could see in the data when both for the young pink person themselves, as well as for like their families, when there was at least that much activity that we saw, the Holy Spirit works through that connection, which again, we go where crisis, we know where Christ has promised to be, and we see the Holy Spirit work through that.

Mark Kiessling (35m 28s):
And so that's a beautiful thing that we see those interactions happen. And, and what we actually saw as much as that was the cutoff point. We saw certainly families that were much more active than that to multiple times a month, if not every week. So we saw again, high propensity to be a worship prayer in the home, just as simple as meal prayers, just a great place to start. If, if families aren't doing that just to give thanks to God for his grace in our life, and for the many ways that he takes care of us. So prayer and these things kind of build on each other. And then there was Bible study in the home.

Mark Kiessling (35m 58s):
And so being in the scripture together. So I mean, great devotional resources. I know you guys have just many ways to get started. And I love hearing families wrestle with this and say, you know, we only got through it once this week. God, praise God, you got to at once this week that's okay. And when you start those things, there's going to be hopefully more and more rotation of that and more moving of that, to where there's going to be more, again, time of God's word, but just to start somewhere with that. And then the other thing we saw then is that when young people saw their parents as people that they could bring their questions to and their struggles with and everything from faith and just in life.

Mark Kiessling (36m 33s):
And, and sometimes I think parents, like, I think you maybe mentioned this before. Sometimes parents, I think, want to be the one to say like, well, when I ask a question or when I ask them, I want to hear the answer right back. And that's just not the way it works, but it's to have that open conversation so that when they're ready to ask the question and they're ready to talk, they have a listening ear to be able to do that. I'm going to trust them because I think we could take a whole other podcast on what you said before about trust is that I think young people are, are they cling on to those trusting relationships? Cause there's so much in the world right now. They either wrestle with whether they can trust it or they know they can't trust it, whether it's data, whether it's news, whatever it is.

Mark Kiessling (37m 7s):
And so when they have those trusting relationships, those are really key. And just to be able to be there, to listen and take their questions. And then as, as appropriately, and as we have the answers and guides, where to point them there. And so sometimes, you know, that answer is, we don't know, that's, that's, we're not God. And we don't know those things. And if help them rest in that, that's a part of being in our sinful condition. And part of being human is that we don't know everything, but we trust in a God and his promises that he's taken care of us. And that's an opportunity to open up that conversation with them.

Elizabeth Pittman (37m 36s):
And it's okay for us adults as adults to be vulnerable. And we shouldn't be afraid to say, you know what? I don't know, but I, and it's a good learning lesson too. Right? I don't know the answer, but let's talk about how we can go find an answer, right? So that's, that's important listeners. We'll have Mark back on to do an episode on trust. So up on the hook for that. So I appreciate everything that you've said today. And as, as you've mentioned, there's so much here in the research that you've, your office has uncovered that we could go for hours and hours, but I really do appreciate the work that your team has put into this massive amount of research that I hope all of our congregations are taking a look at because it really is significant for our youth and for our young adults.

Elizabeth Pittman (38m 25s):
If our, if our listeners want to learn more about the work that you've been doing and your research, where should they go?

Mark Kiessling (38m 29s):
Absolutely. So thanks to you and Concordia Publishing House are a large book on the research counts is the name of it is available for free. Either we both, we still have some hard copy and copies available that can be downloaded sent to you for free, free of charge shipping and everything, as well as there is an electronic version of that, that can be downloaded through the website, as well as the CPH website, I should say. And so that's available. Great stuff, great conversation, questions in there, just to kind of think through assess some things as well as connected for life as a resource that we did with CPH as well.

Mark Kiessling (39m 0s):
That goes into some of those, I think when we're talking about like planning and some things to think through that kind of as a more book for that. So to consider like how do we understand our teenagers? What is our philosophy of Christian education? And then some of those key topics do volunteers, how do we get a support team? Those types of things get into a little bit more of those details and planning about how to do that. And then the other place I point to you is then <inaudible> dot com is our resource website and what we've taken. We took the research and then certainly some other feedback we've gotten from LCMS congregations looked at scripture, our confessions, and looked at youth ministry for today.

Mark Kiessling (39m 34s):
And then we developed what we call the seven practices of healthy youth ministry. And so we kind of talked about some of those today and those kinds of some more outlined and resources available for that on our website as well. There too, for churches who are looking to go a little bit deeper into these topics

Elizabeth Pittman (39m 47s):
And for our listeners, we'll put links to all of these in the show description so that they can find those quickly, but they are definitely worth checking out as there is a wealth of really, really valuable information there. Thank you so much for being with us today, Mark. I appreciate it. God bless. Thanks. And we'll have you back again and listeners we'll catch you next time. Thank you for joining us on this episode of the Concordia publishing house podcast. I pray that this time was valuable to your walk with Christ.